Spelman Going Global

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[00:00:00] Jasmine: Hey everybody, we're back with FTR.

[00:00:02] I'm Jasmine. I'm a sophomore English major here at Spelman College.

[00:00:07] Gabrielle: Hi everyone, my name is Gabrielle, I'm a first year Comparative Women's Studies, Religious Studies double major, Spanish minor, and I'm here as an archives intern.

[00:00:15] Jasmine: I know you have to take a long breath every time somebody asks you who you are. Okay, we also have a guest with us on the podcast.

[00:00:23] Rokiyah: Hey y'all, I'm Rekia Darbo. I am a second year biology major here at Spelman College. 

[00:00:29] Jasmine: Okay, so we're going to go ahead and get started. Today we're talking aboutSpelman going global.

[00:00:35] And we just want to do a quick check in to see everybody and how they're doing.

[00:00:40] Gabrielle: I'm tired. I'm ready for spring break. It's been a very fast moving semester. A lot has been going on. but, I'm glad that I'm here.

[00:00:50] Jasmine: I'm glad that you're here too. I think that we definitely need to be more cognizant of why we're here, and it's definitely to complete a mission and just [00:01:00] keeping that mission in mind going forward.

[00:01:02] I would say for myself, that's what's keeping me motivated. Like, Midterms is next week, and I'm like, I don't want to do it, but

[00:01:10] I know that there's a reason why I'm here, and we're almost there. So how was everybody's Black History Month?

[00:01:16] Gabrielle: Mine has been great. Again, it's been really busy, but I think, you know, for me every day is Black History , but specifically during Black History Month,for me, it's interesting to see what's going on, especially on social media, you know, there's always a bunch of foolishness that happens during Black History Month, too, but I'm excited, and we're in the beginning of Women's History Month, so I just see that as another month for us.

[00:01:41] Jasmine: Yes, I'm so excited to see what Women's History Month has to offer.

[00:01:45] I would say, for my Black History Month it could have been better. I think my highlight was taking people's black cards for saying inappropriate stuff. And it's like, you're at HBCU. You need to keep your black card for as long as you can. [00:02:00] But yeah, that was my highlight.

[00:02:02] So we're gonna go ahead and transition into the episode. Talking about Spelman students going to study abroad. Have y'all ever done study abroad?

[00:02:11] Rokiyah: I actually did study abroad in May. I went to Japan. 

[00:02:15] Jasmine: Okay! 

[00:02:16] Rokiyah: I was able to go with the Gilman Scholarship, and it was an experience that I never thought that I would ever get to experience, especially as a black woman.

[00:02:25] Traveling to a whole different, place. side of the world was definitely a new experience. Being black in Japan, I wouldn't live there long term because there's not a lot of black women, unfortunately.

[00:02:36] Gabrielle: and a lot of anti blackness, unfortunately. 

[00:02:39] Rokiyah: But, my experience there, it was great. I went with my Spelman sisters, and we had a blast. 

[00:02:45] Gabrielle: Spelman really puts and Japan is just really cool, but Spelman puts a big emphasis on us being global citizens and especially on study abroad.

[00:02:55] For me as a Spanish minor at some point I do want to study abroad in a Latin [00:03:00] American country and As a Ghanaian, I also want to study abroad in Ghana. But, unfortunately, study abroad is very expensive, and I thinkthere's some scholarships and stuff like that, but Spelman doesn't necessarily have the most help for us when it comes to study abroad.

[00:03:17] But it's still something I hope I get to do in the future. What about you, Jasmine? 

[00:03:21] Jasmine: Well, unfortunately, I have not had the opportunity to do study abroad. But I do recall

[00:03:27] speaking with an alumna saying that basically doing study abroad is important to your Spelman experience. It's kind of like one of the big highlights of being a Spelmanite.

[00:03:37] And I didn't really internalize that until now that I'm a sophomore going into my junior year. And I know everything is almost over, but I wouldn't say that I don't necessarily have to do study abroad now. If I go to graduate school, I'm sure I'll do study abroad for research purposes. But I just want to take in as much as I can in my experience here on campus before I leave.

[00:03:59] But then, [00:04:00] again, I know at some point I need to get out of this country. I remember Rokiyah just did study abroad, or you just went out of 

[00:04:07] Rokiyah: I went to go visit family back home. 

[00:04:09] Jasmine: You Went to visit family. 

[00:04:12] Rokiyah: It was very peaceful, I went to Gambia, it's in West Africa, I was there for the entire December break. It was just great being back home. Prior to leaving, my grandmother passed away, so. just having a chance to go back was, it was relieving, and it felt like I owed it to her to, you know, be there 

[00:04:33] Jasmine: Hmm, And as Spelman women, I think we definitely need to Keep in mind that we owe it to not only ourselves, but the Spelmanites that came before us and fought for us to be in the place that we are, fought for us to have the funding that we do to even be in the places outside of the country that we have explored.

[00:04:51] And that's why we're here talking about the history of Spelmanites interacting with global issues, particularly how they have in the past and [00:05:00] how they are now. So we have some research that we have conducted, and different phases of history where we're talking about situations happening in the Congo, Vietnam Nashville, Tennessee, South Africa, Sudan, Haiti. So we have these different experiences where we have Spelmanites making space for themselves to speak on issues that otherwise they might have been dismissed from.

[00:05:30] Gabrielle: So, I actually did some research in the archives about as we know now, there's a lot of different global atrocities going on in places like Jasmine mentioned and like Congo, Sudan, Tigray, Haiti, and Palestine, but Spelmanites have had a history of interacting with global crises and not only just interacting, but taking action. And one of the biggest instances of this was during the South African Apartheid. It officially began in [00:06:00] 1948 and it ended in the 1990s. And so we can See, in 1978, it kind of began, Spelman's interaction with the South African Apartheid because the NAACP had encouraged people to protest against Vanderbilt University's sponsorship of the Davis Cup Tennis Tournament, because during that time, the South African team was completely white, even though they were a minority in the country at large.

[00:06:26] And Spelman's own NAACP chapter joined a demonstration in Nashville, Tennessee on March 18th to protest the apartheid. And then we come back like a decade later on October 10th. In 1983, students of the AUC, so that includes Spelman, Morehouse, Clark, and Morris Brown, were part of an organization called the Institute on Third World Policy, and they protested against Spelman inviting South African academics because they were upset that the institution wasn't acknowledging the apartheid that was going on.

[00:06:56] So they marched in a double line from Morehouse's SGA building to what used to [00:07:00] be our guesthouse and held signs saying that Spelman supports apartheid and talking about the injustice that was going on. Then on March 20th in 1985, over 400 students of the AUC held a vigil sponsored by the Coalition of Concerned Students Against Apartheid on the Woodruff Library steps.

[00:07:17] to commemorate the Sharpeville massacre in South Africa, which if you don't know what that was around 20, 000 people were protesting in front of the police stations in South Africa against apartheid, against the past laws. And the police ended up shooting into the crowd, killing 79 people and injuring over 150.

[00:07:35] So that time came to be known as the Sharpeville Massacre. So students in the AUC, they lit candles, they symbolically burned a passbook, which black people in South Africa had to have in order to go into certain places where otherwise they wouldn't be allowed. They sang hymns and spirituals, and they closed that with prayers for justice and peace.

[00:07:55] And then finally in 1986, Spelman officially [00:08:00] divested from South Africa, even though it cost them money, but students activism and organizing around the issue really got the institution to react in a way that was transformational.

[00:08:12] Jasmine: And going off of what Gabrielle was talking about with South Africa and student involvement even during the Vietnam War which lasted between 1954 and 1975 Spelmanites were not totally acquiescent to those events either. They were actually directly involved in one Spelman Spotlight series, a student remarked, My initial concern is the constant drainage of black manpower, also a subtle attempt at indirect genocide. Recent figures show that 35 percent of the Vietnam fatalities are black.

[00:08:46] Continuing with, of even greater significance is the involvement of blacks via the U. S. armed forces in the mass genocide against third world people who are themselves victims of white imperialistic gains. [00:09:00] And this brings me to thinking about how a lot of times when black soldiers would come back from different wars after they had been employed, especially the Vietnam War. They would recall their experiences and say that even being in those terrible circumstances, where they knew that their lives were constantly at risk,

[00:09:20] even in the aftermath, other countries still, who needed, I guess, their support. Other countries still gave them the recognition that they deserved for fighting on behalf of whoever. In this case the United States government in South Vietnam. So, it's interesting to see how Spelman students are interacting with and expressing sympathy for black soldiers who are part of these wars, but it's also interesting to see how Spelman students have also not interacted with certain events across the globe where they may have not been necessarily as active in [00:10:00] protesting against events that might have Indirectly or directly impacted them.

[00:10:05] Gabrielle: To quickly touch on the Vietnam War, because around that time it was a lot of student organizing going on in general, because people realized that Especially for black people during that time, because it was still during the Jim Crow era. So a lot of black people were like, why Muhammad Ali was actually arrested because he chose not to go fight, even when he was drafted.

[00:10:26] Because why am I gonna go fight for a country that doesn't even care about me or my people, and then go to another country to go kill other brown people? in the name of a white supremacist nation. and MLK was one of the most outspoken people against the Vietnam War, because he saw it as, we're spending all these resources, you're taking our men out of our communities to go fight this war, and meanwhile, we're still suffering here.

[00:10:53] Jasmine: Right. And even today having that kind of awareness is important. I have a number of friends [00:11:00] who are involved in ROTC or who might already be deployed right now, and constantly talk about the racial differences they experience out of the states, or sometimes in the states when they're operating in the states. And they're constantly reminded that they have to be aware of who they're defending, who they're representing and how this country has historically not done it's part in recognizing their efforts to make this country what it is today. 

[00:11:27] Gabrielle: So I think that's a good transition into talking about what's currently going on throughout the world. Obviously most of us are on social media and have seen. Global atrocities and genocides going on in places like Palestine, which we're going to touch on later. But there's been a little less awareness around issues, that's going on in the African diaspora in places like Congo, Sudan, Tigray, and Haiti.

[00:11:54] So I'm going to touch on those a little bit today, just to give you guys a quick, and I'm [00:12:00] emphasizing quick because there's a lot more complexity to these issues that requires further research. And so I implore everyone who's listening to this to do your research, not just on social media, but to actually pick up books, read articles, watch documentaries, and actually find organizations to organize with or to donate to that are involved on the ground in these issues.

[00:12:21] So first, I'm gonna quickly touch on Congo. or the Democratic Republic of the Congo because sometimes people don't realize that there's actually two Congos. The Republic of the Congo, also known as Brazzaville, but today we're talking about the Democratic Republic of the Congo. So, the Congo situation has been ongoing for a long time and has a lot of moving parts.

[00:12:42] Congolese people have been used for exploited labor ever since the country was first colonized by Belgium, and specifically King Leopold II. Back then, Congolese people were basically, I could say, pretty much enslaved 

[00:12:53] Jasmine: They were enslaved 

[00:12:54] Gabrielle: to exactly to harvest rubber because that was, like, the [00:13:00] industry that was booming a lot during that time.

[00:13:02] And that exploitation is still continuing right now because Congolese people, and this is including children, are being forced to mine coltan, which is a resource that is used in a lot of our technology, like your iPhones, your MacBooks, your iPads. Most of the technology that we use is used as coltan and the biggest deposits of coltan in the world are in the DRC.

[00:13:23] And so, they're being forced to do this under the threat of physical and sexual violence, The statistics say that over6. 1 million people have been displaced. And around tens of thousands of people have been killed due to rebel groups violence.

[00:13:38] The gender based violence specifically has been outrageous to the point where around 40 women and girls are being sexually assaulted every hour. Like the national big NGOs have noted that the DRC has one of the worst gender based violence crises in the world right now. And of course, like anywhere else in all the other places we're [00:14:00] talking about today, it's imperial powers that benefit the most from the destabilization of the Congo because then they can just get in there and take the resources that may need.

[00:14:09] Meanwhile, the people are still dying and suffering. And these places include, of course, the U. S., also includes China, and also Israel, as we'll touch on more later. And also continuing on with Sudan. Sudan right now is currently in the middle of a proxy war that has been going on since April 2023, and it's also become one of the largest humanitarian crises in the world right now.

[00:14:31] The major two players in the war are the Sudanese Armed Forces and the paramilitary group, the Rapid Support Forces, and one thing I want to say about the RSF really quick is that if you guys don't know, South Africa was prosecuting Israel in the International Court of Justice but one thing that I heard online from a Sudanese woman of note is that, so the South African president also met with the RSF General Hemeti.[00:15:00] 

[00:15:00] So It's important to look at all sides of an issue because while they were doing something great by prosecuting Israel, they're also doing something terrible to other African people at the same time. since April of 2023, over 12, 000 people have been killed and over 8 million people have been displaced, so this has caused pretty much the largest displacement crisis right now in the world.

[00:15:23] Again, gender based violence has been at an all time high. Women and girls have been under constant threat of rape and sex trafficking. I think there was even a point where some girls, because Sudan is a majority Muslim country 

[00:15:34] Rokiyah: A lot of the women in Sudan, when they speak up on what's happening, it poses a huge threat onto them. And this threat can range from their own family having to kill them because, you know, they might be at risk themselves might or, yes, honor killings or, you know, the RSF actually killing them, or it's just a tight situation because [00:16:00] one, while we're also divesting from Israel, when we divest from Israel, it's also harming Sudan.

[00:16:06] I don't know if you guys know this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's also harming Sudan because Israel has made it a point where all the items, like, everything that goes to Sudan is pro-Israeli items. so they can't even boycott from Israel even if they choose to boycott from Israel. and then the situation that they're also in is speaking about, if you're Sudanese, no matter where you are, speaking up about Sudan, your life is at a threat.

[00:16:35] But there are a couple of Sudanese Journalists on social media, you could probably find them. you should look to those resources. They will give you the most concise information. And they'll break it up in the way that you can understand how you can help both sides. as a student.

[00:16:54] Gabrielle: Thank you for that, because I've heard of honor killings before, but I had seen that some women were [00:17:00] asking, is it okay to die by suicide so that I'm not, so I don't 

[00:17:04] Rokiyah: And that's the thing a lot of women are doing that. 

[00:17:07] Gabrielle: And that's heart wrenching. 

[00:17:09] Rokiyah: And I feel like people need to realize that if it comes to the point where someone would rather die then we need to pay attention. That's when you need to open your eyes and pay attention. eyes 

[00:17:20] Gabrielle: I agree. To go to the next country, Tigray if you don't know, is a region in Ethiopia where the Tigrayan people have not completely assimilated into the larger Ethiopian culture.

[00:17:32] They've held on to their language, they've held on to their customs, which I believe we should all have the self determination to be able to do. Do, but in retaliation, the Ethiopian army has been carrying out what's basically an ethnic cleansing campaign against the Tigrayan people.

[00:17:46] Over 1 million people have been displaced, many have died, and many are escaping to Sudan for refuge, which we also know Sudan is in its own humanitarian crisis. So that whole region is just in. a lot of [00:18:00] destabilization right now, and again, like talking about destabilization in Haiti's governmental structures have pretty much completely collapsed.

[00:18:07] the civilians are trying to speak out and protest, and they're being responded to with brutal force by police. People are fearing for their lives due to increasing gang violence. And so I think Going over all of these situations, and again, this is just a really brief overview, and it's extremely important that we all do educate ourselves.

[00:18:26] And when I say that, it doesn't mean go follow people on social media, but also take it off social media. Find books, find documentaries, find articles, and find organizations that are doing on the ground work. For me personally, I know with the Congo, the biggest organization that's been doing work is Friends of the Congo.

[00:18:44] I've also been like in contact with them and we're currently working on trying to get some kind of events and more awareness going on in the AUC student organizing around that. But they're a great organization to look to for resources as well as if you have any extra change to donate as well.

[00:18:59] [00:19:00] But all of these issues, and as we're gonna Transition into talking about Palestine. They're all interconnected with the idea of imperial power andwhite supremacy deciding that black and brown people don't have the right to our lives, don't have the right to our land, and don't have the right to self determination.

[00:19:17] Jasmine: And I hear it too often, especially by people of our generation who aren't necessarily involved in these so called politicized issues. They say, well, you know, I'm here, I don't really experience these things, it doesn't involve me. And I just want to Reference Nelson Mandela when he said, when speaking about Palestine, we know too well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of Palestinians, and that just goes for any marginalized group across the world.

[00:19:45] Our freedom is directly tied to the African diaspora, and if we don't realize that as students, imagine what that's going to reflect in your work, in your advocacy. And that's why Spelman has Facilitated a program [00:20:00] so students can be social activists and not only the Atlantic community, but worldwide, which is called the social justice program.

[00:20:09] The blue record is actually part of the umbrella of the social justice program. There are a number of different living and learning communities within the social justice program. I know there's a. Reproductive Justice Club Environmental Justice Club, variety of different initiatives that students can acclimate with and become involved.

[00:20:28] Somehow, you must be involved because, again, that is tied back to your world experiences, how you identify as a Black woman and Spelmanite. 

[00:20:38] Gabrielle: Exactly. And quickly to touch before we transition into talking about Palestine specifically how this connects to us, especially as students in the AUC we're in Atlanta, we're in the west end.

[00:20:51] And if you guys don't already know about Cop City, please do your research because that is extremely connected to Us, [00:21:00] specifically, as black people in America, are, we're going through the whole country, the police forces are becoming more militarized, and as we'll see, that also has a connection to Israel as well, because there's been police exchanges, specifically with the Atlanta Police Department between them and the IDF through Gilly, which is at Georgia State.

[00:21:19] So our issues are very interconnected, and what's going on in Palestine and other places around the world. Although, yes, it seems very extreme, and it's like, that's never gonna happen here, but they're literally training to be able to do it to us. So these issues are not as far away as we would like to think.

[00:21:35] Rokiyah: you don't see it coming. There's loopholes all over the system. So you don't really see anything like these type of atrocities coming. They kind of just hit you. Because we could just be sitting here and then they have a whole different agenda happening. So you always have to make sure that you are aware of what's happening And that you're very conscious in where you stand when it comes to it because it could affect your [00:22:00] life and everyone else around you.

[00:22:01] Gabrielle: affect 

[00:22:01] Absolutley. 

[00:22:03] Jasmine: Alright, so we're going to go ahead and transition into the portion about the administration and student activism. Particularly in our conversation about Palestine.

[00:22:14] Rokiyah actually facilitated a protest called the Free Palestine Protest, Yes?

[00:22:21] Rokiyah: Yes. 

[00:22:22] Yes 

[00:22:23] Jasmine: Last, year, 

[00:22:24] Rokiyah: October 20th, 2023. 

[00:22:26] Jasmine: October 20th. And I believe it even got the recognition of a variety of different news sites. So it was pretty big. It was, I wouldn't say call it wild, but it was important.

[00:22:38] Rokiyah: Yes. it was the first protest that we've had in Atlanta for Palestine. So it was definitely a stepping stone. Well, 

[00:22:46] Jasmine: Well, I want to commend you, and I want to say thank you for not only having the courage, but the determination to see something like this through, because I know you personally, and I know that you, in your personal life, you have a lot going [00:23:00] on, and just the heart that you bring into this situation, the love that you have for Helping free people is unlike any I've ever seen in my personal life. So I thank you for representing what it means to be a social activist. 

[00:23:16] Rokiyah: Thank you so much. out I also love to say that being in an HBCU is what really pushed that out of me and prior to college I went to a high school but it was predominantly white and I would speak up about Palestine but I remember during my junior and senior years when I really started speaking up about it and I was just immediately silenced.

[00:23:40] I couldn't even talk about it. And the students in my classes, they were all basically against me. Even the teachers were against me, so that's kind of what led me to, okay, you know, I need to be in a space where we can talk about these. We can question what, you know, what was taught to us. We can unlearn what we shouldn't have [00:24:00] ever, the information that shouldn't have ever been put onto us. But, That's why going to an HBCU. I, That's also another part of why I love it.

[00:24:08] Jasmine: And as students, and I know alumni love to call us, use this term, mini adults who haven't so called experienced the real world. I think we obviously have experience in the real world because if not for so many people, so many HBCU grads not Speaking on this issue or not being involved, then we wouldn't have circumstances like this where we would go to these schools and be silenced. There's a reason why people feel comfortable in silencing black women. 

[00:24:41] Gabrielle: Exactly.

[00:24:42] Rokiyah: In 2024. So we definitely need to discuss that. But I want to move on, on a more positive note. Tell us about the protest and what motivated you to organize it. Okay, so the reason why I organized a protest is simply because I am human, Like everyone else in this [00:25:00] world I have my empathy. It just it has no limits. So when I first saw the news coming out of Palestine, I wasn't really surprised about it I was like, okay you know, this is what israel does you know, we've seen this over Decades this is just something that's reoccurring And i'm just sitting there with my emotions empathy is such an overwhelming emotion especially when you don't know what to do with it. It kind of just sits on you. I felt so helpless, I just, I felt like, I'm just sitting here in my comfort bubble you know, there's not really much that I'm doing for them.

[00:25:30] And then, I was like, okay, you know what, let me contact the people that I know will stand behind me. And, it gave me a new lens of meeting other orgs in, like, Atlanta who also stand for things, like, Stop Cop City. I didn't even know about that until I reached out to them in person.

[00:25:46] They're like, oh yeah, like, we do this right. So, it just. It allowed me to know about so much and see that there's so many people and that we the people have so much that we can do. And like I said, at first the emotions that [00:26:00] comes with being an empath, it can be so overwhelming and they can cause so much isolation when they aren't recognized.

[00:26:06] But, if you feel these emotions, you need to realize that these emotions are a gift. and It allows us to view the world in multiple different lenses. It allows you to connect with people. Because when you speak the language of other people, it doesn't have to be the language that they speak, but the language of how they feel.

[00:26:24] We all know feelings. We all know emotions. So that was what motivated me into bringing as many people as I can together. People from different backgrounds. I contacted all the schools in Atlanta. I'm talking Georgia State, Georgia Tech, Emory, the AUC, and even as far as Kennesaw State. And thankfully everyone, like over 3000 people showed out. So it was amazing.

[00:26:47] Gabrielle: Awesome. Again, like Jasmine said, I commend you for that. as someone who wants to be a community organizer that's really inspiring to see a student taking that burden on because I know that's not [00:27:00] easy to organize to get people to actually come together at one time for a common purpose.

[00:27:05] And if you guys don't know Spelman and the AUC in general, we do have a chapter of Students for Justice in Palestine. It was started by Dr. Banah Ghadbian, who is a professor in the Comparative Women's Studies department. They were also a student here at Spelman. They were valedictorian of their year and then they started SJP while they were here.

[00:27:24] When they left, it kind of died, but when they came back, them and students started it back up. So, me and Rokiyah are part of the organization. So I kind of wanted to ask you because my friend Mackenzie is also a member of SJP, and a couple of years ago they went to the, national Students for Justice in Palestine conference.

[00:27:44] they were the only HBCU chapter there. So they had an issue with a lot of anti blackness during the conference. So I kind of wanted to know, like, how is organizing in the pro Palestine, Palestinian solidarity place for you as a black woman? [00:28:00] 

[00:28:00] Rokiyah: Okay, thank you so much for asking that question because I feel like that's something that a lot of people don't talk about. Being a black woman in any space can be so uncomfortable.

[00:28:11] Having the courage to just even speak on things, and it's like, being heard, it's something that Dulls on one's mind. But thankfully, with the Atlanta organizers, I feel like whenever I'm in a room with them, they always want to hear my voice. like, sometimes I feel like okay, maybe I'm talking a little too much, but.

[00:28:31] They always want to hear what I have to say. Recently we even had a talk about misogyny in one of the orgs that I'm a part of. And how we can go about moving forward. So, it's just a space where we see each other as human and we see each other as human with, you know, human but we all have our own struggles.

[00:28:49] And then once you recognize that, that's when we can be able to work together, and I feel like as a black woman, if you do end up in spaces like this, [00:29:00] make sure that you hold your head up high, because your voice matters in that room. You connect so much, and as black women, we're naturally empaths, so you are needed, just trust your intuition. That's what I have to say. 

[00:29:14] Gabrielle: I love that answer.

[00:29:15] Jasmine: and that kind of stems from womanist theory. Um, There's a theory basically talking about womanism and womanist and how when it comes to our leadership capabilities, when it comes to our advocacy, that our mission that we always kind of tend to gravitate towards is community outreach. So while some I'm not going to sit here and point out different groups, but while some groups have a tendency to use their leadership capabilities to make decisions for what they believe is going to be best for the community, a lot more black women tend to intercept and interject with These communities that they're involved with and look at them as human [00:30:00] beings and say, okay, I see you individually

[00:30:03] Rokiyah: I feel like that also goes with how black women, we are disregarded in society.

[00:30:09] So it's like, we understand. Firsthand what that's like and it causes us to recognize it when it's happening onto other people. 

[00:30:17] Gabrielle: Right? 

[00:30:18] Rokiyah: And then I feel like that's also why black women we're just we're healing We're natural healers. Our aura is healing what we have to bring is also healing. So I think our voices are very important 

[00:30:28] Gabrielle: I agree. 

[00:30:29] Jasmine: Well, I must inquire because I'm quite curious specifically as a Spelmanite, and we talked previously about how Spelman administration has not interacted well with students who are activists um, and just the Atlanta community in general. What was their reaction, Spelman administration and Atlanta, to the protests?

[00:30:50] Rokiyah: so I will say this. While going into the protest, I just had the mindset where it's like, I have and I will always stand with Palestine. So it's like, whatever [00:31:00] the reaction I was going to get, it wasn't going to steer me. Admin, thankfully, they didn't have a negative reaction. honestly, they didn't even acknowledge it, if we're being real. So, that's just what that is. It is what it is. they 

[00:31:13] Jasmine: Okay. 

[00:31:14] Rokiyah: but they haven't acknowledged it. And I'm kind of glad they didn't. The students did, which is amazing. That's what I really wanted. I wanted it to just be an opportunity where us students felt like, you know, we can come together. We are a different generation. You know, we're trying to make changes. And as students going to the number one HBCU, we can. 

[00:31:35] Gabrielle: Mm hmm.

[00:31:36] And I think As in SJP, we've had a lot of conversations about the administration's reaction and I know a lot of people have been frustrated by the lack of the administration's reaction, but I think it's better for them to just stay neutral than rather, not that I wouldn't prefer for Spelman to stand with us, but I think, you know, when we're looking at situations like [00:32:00] even Emory down the street, or especially like a lot of big private PWIs like Harvard and Brown, like Brown University students just went on a hunger strike, and Brown said, we still don't care, we're not divesting.

[00:32:12] And so, I think for us, we're in a particular space as HBCU students where our administrations they don't necessarily celebrate us or stand with us, but they don't necessarily condemn us either. So we're kinda in the space where we can get more active in certain things, because we don't have administrations that have such a huge Zionist presence that will completely silence us.

[00:32:37] Rokiyah: I agree, and I also think that although, you know, it's good that they're not condemning us, I really do think that we need their voices. this matter has been going on for months now, and still nothing, not even recognizing what's happening. It's kind of just feels like they're numb to it, which doesn't really feel good on the student body because we see what's happening. We see [00:33:00] it every single day. And I just can't understand how You can't address that, even if it's like, addressing it one time. I feel like it's very important to address.

[00:33:08] Jasmine: It's actually interesting because Spelman alumna Stacey Abrams came for convocation and I was taking notes on some of the things that she said and one of the things that stood out to me was that she said silence is a tactic, not a strategy. After you've been silent for so long, people forget that you're there.

[00:33:29] And it's not necessary that Spelman students are going to forget that the administration are there, but my concern is that, okay, with Cop City, we know that the Israel conflict with Palestine, is attached to cop City.

[00:33:42] Gabrielle: Mhmm.

[00:33:43] Jasmine: So when students become more activists against Cop City, and their involvement increases over time, and then students are directly intertwined with These police forces that are actively, let's be [00:34:00] real, going to harm students. That's what they're being trained to do. They're not being trained to understand, they're being trained to harm

[00:34:05] Gabrielle: Exactly.

[00:34:06] Jasmine: So, when is Spelman going to respond, like, how are they going to respond, that's my concern. Because you have to have your students back, at the end of the day. Because it's going to be highly racialized, it's going to be highly genderized. So, if you're going to sit there and be compliant, and I'm not saying that's necessarily what's going on. but we're talking about it's been neutral. You can't be compliant the whole time. Because if students start dying because of this, then we're going to be looking at you like, well, so what? We're here for what? 

[00:34:37] Gabrielle: Mhmm. And I'm glad you brought up Cop City becauseunfortunatley, Spelman's response is not suprising,I wasn't here then, but from what I've observed and heard from people who were like Spelman's response to when students were trying to get them to talk about Cop City, it wasn't great. It was more like, we can't really publicly speak out about this issue. And I think in general, it's important for us to [00:35:00] understand that, unfortunately still, even being at HBCUs, these are institutions that also function as businesses. And so In that case we really are going to have to move with or without them because they have a lot of overhead and things that we don't know about, a lot of sources of funding that they cannot speak out against 

[00:35:25] Rokiyah: Yeah, and that's very scary when you really think about it, because what could possibly lead you to complete silence when it comes to a situation like this.

[00:35:34] It makes me think a lot about where is our money coming from? And, you know, it just, it has a lot of loopholes in it that we don't have enough transparency with the students, per se. And also, I don't think that Spelman retaliating against students will be a good idea whatsoever because we lead by the logo a choice to change the world.

[00:35:58] Jasmine: And, well, I'll even go [00:36:00] back and we were talking about the Civil Rights Movement.

[00:36:02] Gabrielle: Mhmm.

[00:36:03] Jasmine: One activist in particular,Gwendolyn Simmons s, she was a Spelmanite for some time, but she left because she had a scholarship and she wanted to get involved.

[00:36:14] She even said herself The pull you felt towards deeper involvement in a more direct way, there was a terrible tension in my life because I had been told by my folks in the Spelman administration not to get involved in the civil rights movement. So, there is this internal conflict when you are not involved in something that directly impacts you.

[00:36:36] And it led her, unfortunately, to leave Spelman, even though she had a scholarship that was funding her Spelman experience. Because students were being, I guess, threatened with expulsion if they were outside protesting for the Civil Rights Movement. And that goes for a number of different advocates that Spelman likes to talk about.

[00:36:57] Gabrielle: Mhmm. 

[00:36:57] Jasmine: and their experience I want to say[00:37:00] 

[00:37:00] Gabrielle: Ruby Doris Smith robinson. 

[00:37:01] Jasmine: Yes,, we talk about Audre Lorde

[00:37:04] Rokiyah: And then Angela Davis as well. It's just, these are such prominent women that I view as like, you know, these are our women these are the black women who they show us what it's really like to change the world. They're the ones who chose to change the world, and following in their footsteps should be praised. We should be getting recognized, we should be being backed, and we should be getting support from our school.

[00:37:27] And the world is already a hard place as it is, as a black woman, and the last thing that we need is our own institution. not backing us up in a world where we're already not backed up. 

[00:37:39] Jasmine: That is so real. 

[00:37:40] Rokiyah: It's as simple 

[00:37:41] Jasmine: So, Rukia, if you don't mind just giving us an overview to conclude with our conversation about Palestine, of what students must know in going forward in their research about what's going on in the Israeli Palestine conflict.

[00:37:55] Rokiyah:  what I want to tell the students who might not know much about this issue, or if you're getting newly [00:38:00] involved, is to always remember these facts.

[00:38:02] So, the Gaza Strip has a population of about 2. 3 million people living in one of the most densely populated places. and ever since 2007, israel has maintained a siege over Gaza's airspace. by getting rid of their airport, so they're not allowed to leave or have family come in.

[00:38:22] They also have control of their waters, for example. the access that they have to water they're not allowed to. It's also. controlled how much water that they can have for drinking water.

[00:38:31] They're also not allowed to collect rainwater, which I've never heard of. So another thing is, since october 7th every hour in Gaza, 15 people are killed, 6 are children. 92 journalists have been killed so far, which is to suppress what we know and is to suppress their voices, which is where we come into play and we need to start lending our voices to the voiceless people all around the world.

[00:38:55] We also need to remember that Palestinians taught black people how to fight against police violence after [00:39:00] Ferguson. And although being human is not really something that should be transactional, It's also important to have their back as well when they're going through this because we don't have each other but each other and once you realize that it's the people together then it just makes everything.

[00:39:18] a lot easier to understand. 

[00:39:20] Gabrielle: I think quickly to touch on, like we were talking about gender based violence earlier there's a reproductive justice crisis going on in Gaza right now. Women and girls and people with periods are not able to get access to menstrual care. And one thing, it was actually a situation the other day because we currently have a Palestine is a feminist issue. Event coming up on the March 5th with Dr. Banah Ghadbian and the Palestinian Feminist Collective. And so I was putting up posters, and these two girls asked what does this mean? And I explained to them there's a reproductive justice crisis going on right now, and women are not able to get access to menstrual products, and they were like, wow, I didn't realize that you [00:40:00] don't think that, oh, something as normal as periods are still going on during times of war and crisis.

[00:40:05] And when we think about it, yes, they are. Women in Congo, Sudan, Tigray, Palestine, Haiti are still having to give birth and still having their periods, but the medical infrastructure is not there. And so people are starting to starve and die of diseases. And experts are predicting that in the future more people will die of starvation and diseases than they are even by the bombs that Israel is throwing down.

[00:40:30] Rokiyah: No, literally because the other day I saw a video of a two month old. This baby was born from the start of this conflict and a two month old baby starved to death 

[00:40:41] Jasmine: my god. 

[00:40:42] Rokiyah: And It just goes to show how much of a toll that also took on the mom To the point where she's not even able to produce breast milk to provide for her baby And on top of that they don't have any food guys.

[00:40:56] You guys need to remember they don't have Continuous aid [00:41:00] coming in. These are people who, they're sitting around with a siren, a non stop siren, over their head, which is causing psychological abuse. On top of that, they could be killed any second, targeted any time, because again, we have seen multiple times that Israel can be as precise as they want to be. And we have recently seen that starvation being used as a tool against the people during the flour massacre, where They brought aid trucks in, mind you, these people are laying on the streets waiting for the aid to come. Like, they're staying on the streets, 4am, all the way to the morning, and then they're doing it again. Just to get flour, to take it back home, to bake bread.

[00:41:41] And as soon as the aid trucks come, and they're trying to go to it, people are being shot at and killed. And Israel themselves have admitted to this. and this is when your human trait comes in, where you need to trust the right sources. You need to start trusting yourself, and you need to start recognizing patterns.

[00:41:58] Gabrielle:  Absolutely. [00:42:00] And I think, as we're coming to the end, With all of that, that where we talked about today about, again, Congo, Sudan, Tigray, Haiti, Palestine, it's easy to feel hopeless. Even when I joined SJP, and then October 7th happened, and then just the constant bombardment, when I started learning about what women and girls are going through in Congo and Sudan, and just hearing these heart wrenching tales, it's easy to get hopeless and to be like, there's nothing I can do, and I felt that way, so that's a normal part of it.

[00:42:31] But in the Women's Center, we are taught about Black feminism and Black feminist scholar activism. And one of the things that we're told is, when you start feeling that hopelessness, the best way to combat it is by getting active in whatever way that you can. So as students, I see our most important job right now is education.

[00:42:52] We're literally here to learn, and that learning doesn't have to just be done in the classroom. with the internet. Yes, it has a lot of cons, but the pros of it is [00:43:00] that we can have so much information at our fingertips, we have ebooks. You don't even have to go buy a physical book.

[00:43:06] we have thousands of articles. We have videos, long form video content where people put a lot of time and energy into explaining a topic to us. There's so much out there that there's really no excuse for us not being able to educate ourselves on these topics anymore and Unfortunately, y'all, I have to tell you, TikTok is really not enough to get educated on these things because people are just giving snippets and not giving the full context of a situation, which is not possible to do in three minutes or even necessarily 10 minutes. It takes time.

[00:43:36] Jasmine: And talk to your peers.

[00:43:37] Gabrielle: Exactly. 

[00:43:38] Jasmine: Because, y'all can sit there in the caf and kiki all day about what happened today, what happened at homecoming, what happened during the weekend or whatever,

[00:43:46] You never know what experiences your Spelman sisters or your Morehouse brothers or your Clark siblings might have that that relates to these experiences, like who knows somebody that's been arrested?

[00:43:59] [00:44:00] Everybody in this room. Who knows somebody that might have been abused because of their race, because of their gender, who been um, racially profiled and, you know, stopped up by police or something.

[00:44:11] Gabrielle: Exactly.

[00:44:12] Rokiyah: I completely agree because we are adults Like, we're all mini adults. We need to start acting like it. We need to start having conversations like adults. Also another thing that we as HBCU students need to remember is that money that could have paid for reparations from slavery are being used to fund a genocide. 

[00:44:30] Jasmine: Mmm.

[00:44:31] Gabrielle: Kind of ate that one. And with that, you know, join organizations like Students for Justice in Palestine Get involved with organizations outside of campus like Friends of the Congo. In Atlanta, there's so many grassroots organizations that are working on so many different issues, that are working on Palestinian solidarity, that are working against Cop City. There's so many places that you can get involved. All you have to do is a quick Google search. So I just implore you to continue after today, and even events that you go to, [00:45:00] to continue educating yourself, and to get involved where you can. And know your capacity, you know. Not everyone can hit the streets. Sometimes it might be those conversations with your friends and your family, but whatever you can do, take that step.

[00:45:13] Jasmine: And and then knowing your capacity, also know your responsibility. Because as Spelman women, with the logo, you know, a choice to change the world. If we're going to sit here and say, I represent Spelman College, we must know that the world is not just our individual communities. Yes, you can be active in your individual communities, but we also remember that we talk all the time, you know, I want to travel, I want to see what's out there, but what's out there is horrendous.

[00:45:40] Gabrielle: Mhmmm. 

[00:45:40] Jasmine: People need help. And if we're not actively choosing to help people, if we're not putting our pride aside, our money aside, Tiffany Haddish then we're not doing the work as a Spelmanite. 

[00:45:54] Rokiyah: And our voices are so important as Spelman women. 

[00:45:56] Gabrielle: Exactly. ,

[00:45:57] Jasmine: Alright, so we're going to go ahead [00:46:00] and conclude the episode. I hope that everybody enjoyed and we look forward to speaking with you again soon. Thank

[00:46:08] Gabrielle: soon.

[00:46:08] Yes. so much.